Is Guts' Beherit for him?

[ELEKTROFUNK]

Gats fixations atm are Griffith the God Hand (or anything related to them) and his precious Caska. Sure would be fun if he ended sacrificing the God Hand/Griffith even tho I don't think the GH will bend over and sacrifice themselves lol.

 

[Aazealh]

Guts may kill Griffith and take his place as a Godhand.

No.

a positive godhand member.

There's no such thing (if by "positive" you mean Good, as opposed to Evil).

 

[Nickoten]

I think Flora said that it wasn't his Behelit, and that it was only staying with him until the person who needed it was ready to use it. Or something like that.

So, I think it's possible that someone else travelling with Guts may be tempted to use that Behelit, and maybe it came with Guts because it knew it could get to that person through him. I'm thinking it could be either Isidoro or Farneze, but neither character seems like the type to sacrifice their friends for power (At least, not at this point) to me. Does anyone know if you're bound by fate to use the Behelit, or if it's completely up to you?

 

[Aazealh]

So, I think it's possible that someone else travelling with Guts may be tempted to use that Behelit, and maybe it came with Guts because it knew it could get to that person through him.

Yes, it doesn't necessarily have to be someone from Guts' band though.

Does anyone know if you're bound by fate to use the Behelit, or if it's completely up to you?

There are lots of posts on the subject already, run a search and you should find some good material.

To answer your question, it's more subtle than just being "bound by fate". It's up to an individual to use or not a Beherit, but causality makes it so people choose to use it. Their life is fashioned in such a way that they will make that choice when the time comes. Griffith or the Count are perfect examples of how it works.

 

[Nickoten]

But, Berserk's world isn't completely run by Causality, right? Guts exist outside of it, doesn't he? So maybe him being there could be the variable that causes the destined person to not use it?

 

[Aazealh]

But, Berserk's world isn't completely run by Causality, right?

It is, mostly.

Guts exist outside of it, doesn't he?

No, he doesn't. Search for the Jumping Fish reference in the Encyclopedia. How could it be anyway, since he's the one carrying the beherit? ;)

 

[Beneath]

Im pretty sure Guts will remain human even until the end. We know that he is already becoming more inhuman, but I dont think it will go so far as to Guts actually becoming an apostle. I think, at least with the berserk armor, he will be able to kill grunbeld, and locus, and all the others, maybe even Zodd.  Not sure if he'll be able to take out Void and the others, but I suspect either Guts or Casca will be the one who brings Griffith down.  And im sure SK will deal with the others.
  I sorta think that before the end, Guts will reach that point where he will either become like SK, or stay human. Im sure that its not gonna end where guts becomes a monster, but who can know for sure. 
 
I like the idea that the Behelit guts is carrying may be for one of his friends, maybe serpico or shierke? Possibly even Caska?

 

[Nickoten]

So, this means that every behelith HAS to be used, then? If Guts can't escape fate? From that metaphor I gathered that Guts can alter the course of the outcome, but the outcome will be the same (The moon's reflection going back to normal). Not sure how off or on base I am here.

 

[Aazealh]

If Guts can't escape fate?

Where are you pulling that from? Guts can alter things (see the incarnation ceremony), only not much, not often, and not on a grand scale. There's no "bound by fate" or "outside of fate" stuff.

As for the beherits, from what we know, they always fall into the right hands at the right moment, yeah.

 

[Nickoten]

Where are you pulling that from? Guts can alter things (see the incarnation ceremony), only not much, not often, and not on a grand scale. There's no "bound by fate" or "outside of fate" stuff.

I was interchanging "fate" and "causality" as I figured that casuality basically led back to fate in the end. I think my definition of causality may be off, though.

 

[Aazealh]

I was interchanging "fate" and "causality" as I figured that casuality basically led back to fate in the end.

Well there are nuances that can be of importance, even if the 2 notions are similar in various ways. There are numerous old posts explaining this.

Now what I was reacting to in your last post was more the "bound by fate" thingie itself, as you can't just state that Guts is in/out of "Fate". He still exists within the flow of causality, but he can act against it in some ways. The course of events isn't written in a book and things are not inevitable, even if in the end he cannot really thwart things on a grand scale (well, we'll see if he can or not when the series end ;D).

 

[Nickoten]

I see. Also, one more thing. The Idea of Evil is basically what creates the "future" or controls causality or however you want to put it, right? Well, if this is a tangible object, does that mean that causality can be changed by humans, too? That is, if you can actually touch the Idea of Evil.

 

[Aazealh]

The Idea of Evil is basically what creates the "future" or controls causality or however you want to put it, right?

Manipulates causality would be good.

Well, if this is a tangible object

It isn't. It's an entity that originates from the ideal world, and that we've seen in the deepest layer of the astral world we know of (the abyss), a place where people cannot go. Really, its name should be enough of a clue. ;)

 

[Nickoten]

Ah, okay. I figured that if you somehow were able to go to the abyss you could touch it.

 

[Feanor]

Why takes Guts one beherit with him if he not intend to collect beherits, so that other humans could not use them? Is he intend to mock the god hand?
To demonstrate them, that he don't use this thing although he needs it perhaps more than any other to accomplish his task and proof that he is not a weakling like griffith.
Or is it simple a kind of curiosity. Perhaps he wanted to find someone who could tell him more about the beherit, who can tell him how to use it as a weapon against his enemies. Perhaps he thought it could be useful to have one.
I don't know.
I think he can use it. In my opinion the size of the sacrifice and the will to use it is the most important thing.
For example the baron who would not sacrifice his daughter but Guts instead.
I he couldn't sacrifice Guts because he has no value to him. If he liked him like a son the god hand had accepted his sacrifice.

 

[Aazealh]

Why takes Guts one beherit with him if he not intend to collect beherits, so that other humans could not use them? Is he intend to mock the god hand?

He wanted to use the beherit to call them, since they reside in another dimension. That's the only way he would have been able to confront them at the time, but you can't activate a beherit so easily, like Flora explained in volume 24. He did meet them in volume 3, thanks to the Count, but he was easily defeated anyway. Nowadays he keeps it because Puck refuses to part with it.

I think he can use it. In my opinion the size of the sacrifice and the will to use it is the most important thing.

That's not all there is to it, and the chances of Guts becoming an apostle are objectively extremely low.

I he couldn't sacrifice Guts because he has no value to him. If he liked him like a son the god hand had accepted his sacrifice.

No, even if the Count (not baron) had loved Guts dearly, he wouldn't have been able to sacrifice him, because Griffith had already done so.

All of your questions have answers to them in the manga, I advise you to read it again more thoroughly.

 

[Kart]

I think we all need to do a quick evaluation about the current information and situation.


Let's go over it: the beherit will find who it is destined to. It can be used by more than one person, because the red behelit is used every 500 years? I dont think the godhands suddenly make a new beherit when it comes time for a new godhand. I think it exists, and floats around til its needed.


Now lets look at the group of misfits.

Isidro is probably the most unlikely to use it, he really doesnt have anything to sacrifice.

Serpico probably wont just because he doesn't seem like the hyper emotional type, he's calm and collected, but he very well could, because miura makes things that dont make sense happen.

Farn I think is likely, she has shown she has alot of fear, is hardly calm and collected, extremely emotional, she loves serpico too, i think. So she has her sacrifice should it come time.

Shrieke may, but I think its just about as likely as puck or isidro, miura can do anything he wats.

Casca, Is who I think is most likely to use the beherit, she's mad right now, highly emotional, irrational, scared, Farnz is a likely sacrifice, she has alot to gain by using it, but it doesnt matter sense she's mad. And even if she does regain her sanity she still has alot to gain. She might even be able to fight alongside gutts...Although some random character in the future could be the one who uses it.

 

[asmer]

And even if she does regain her sanity she still has alot to gain. She might even be able to fight alongside Guts...

I don't understand, are you saying Casca may sacrifice Farnese, become an Apostle, and then could fight alongside Guts, against Griffith I guess???

To me, not only does it seem pretty farfetched, but really unrealistic. Guts wouldn't fight with an Apostle for an ally, whoever it is, and most important, I don't see why he would forgive to Casca what he currently is hating Griffith for: sacrificing people that are dear to him!

As far as I'm concerned, I can't imagine any member of the current Guts' band using this Beherit... I'm also sure it's gonna have a purpose, but I think it's gonna have to do more with the SkullKnight, and probably near the end of the story, when it will be time for the current GodHand members to fight!

Well, any possibility is to be taken into consideration, but I hope all of the current "heroes" will make it to the End!

 

[Aazealh]

the red behelit is used every 500 years? I dont think the godhands suddenly make a new beherit when it comes time for a new godhand. I think it exists, and floats around til its needed.

It's every 216 years. And while we suppose that there's just one crimson beherit, nothing proves it.

Isidro is probably the most unlikely to use it, he really doesnt have anything to sacrifice.

He's also the most ambitious one, with a great goal and all that, so if we're going by "likeliness" I wouldn't dismiss him so easily.

Farn I think is likely, she has shown she has alot of fear, is hardly calm and collected, extremely emotional, she loves serpico too, i think.

That was 10 volumes ago though. Farnese' character has completely changed since then. She has evolved into a different individual, her "true self", most probably.

Schierke may, but I think its just about as likely as puck or isidro, miura can do anything he wats.

Well, I don't think he's going to do something senseless anyway...

Casca, Is who I think is most likely to use the beherit, she's mad right now, highly emotional, irrational, scared, Farnz is a likely sacrifice, she has alot to gain by using it, but it doesnt matter sense she's mad. And even if she does regain her sanity she still has alot to gain.

I'm not going to repeat what asmer said, but since Casca is unable to reason she can't use the beherit for now. And if she comes back to herself, nothing says what she will be like, so it's hard to predict how she would behave, what she would have to gain or who she would care for.

 

[Kart]

yeah, but I like wild fantasies. Besides it's hardly the worst said this thread. And while Isidro may, It still doesn't feel likely. And the seen with the trolls was 10 volumes ago? I dont like her, and I still think she's likely. And sense when do you need sanity? Has that ever been said?(Not sarcasm) I thought extreme emotion was the only thing required to summon a god hand...but that's just a passing thought.


Serpico I could see doing it, but he's shown no bitterness about his current status. so I see nothing that points to it.

 

[xechnao]

What about Guts on a confrontation with apostles or even Griffith going desperate ?
Would this be the most ironic or what?

 

[Aazealh]

while Isidro may, It still doesn't feel likely.

It doesn't feel likely for any of Guts' companions.

And the seen with the trolls was 10 volumes ago?

It was 4 volumes ago, and she was already showing a change of character at that time, and before that too. If you care to read the dialogue from these parts you'll see what I mean. Did she not face the trolls to protect Casca? Having fear is nothing, Guts has a lot in him; fighting your fear is what makes you courageous.

I dont like her, and I still think she's likely.

Well you and I think what we want, but that doesn't prove much.

And sense when do you need sanity? Has that ever been said?(Not sarcasm)

You're talking about Serpico not being bitter toward his current status. Is Casca bitter? Can she only be bitter? Could her mind form the thoughts necessary in order to sacrifice anything? All she seems to be interested in is food. And while she doesn't like Guts, she seems relatively happy and carefree with the group. So no, it hasn't been said plainly anywhere in the manga that you need to be sane, but that's not hard to deduce. It also hasn't been said anywhere that extreme emotion was the only thing required. if she was just simple minded, like Niko in the DC game, I wouldn't mind, but she really seems devoid of any coherent thought that isn't about the most basic things.

Anyway, I digress, but after years of dissing Smith on his spelling, I can't help but note that you're making pretty big spelling mistakes yourself. There's a spellchecker embedded in the board, if needed.

What about Guts on a confrontation with apostles or even Griffith going desperate ?

I don't think Griffith, as a God Hand member, would need a beherit to summon the other members...

 

[xechnao]

I don't think Griffith, as a God Hand member, would need a beherit to summon the other members...

Slann didn't even know where the other members where, so who really knows right now how this works.
Besides, I was talking about Guts activating the behelit and calling GH, not Griffith.
Perhaps it's not just coming together but how or why they come together...
Slann and Guts did met but she didn't make him an offer in exchange for a sacrifice. Perhaps, when a beherit is activated GH members are bound to act in this certain way.
So, perhaps this is something that has to do with the beherit and not just gh members.

 

[Kart]

fair enough, once i get back from school i'll fix my spelling errors. That was just a quick "Oh shit I said stupid things, cover my ass" post before I had to leave. But I think i am in dire need of a rereading of berserk. Til then I suck as bad as smith.

 

[Aazealh]

Slann didn't even know where the other members where, so who really knows right now how this works.

Nothing says she didn't know where they were (or couldn't check it/call them if needed), she was just evasive and didn't tell SK about it, which is quite logical when you think about it. Revealing him that kind of information would be rather foolhardy.

Besides, I was talking about Guts activating the behelit and calling GH, not Griffith.

Well, your wording had me confused.

Slann and Guts did met but she didn't make him an offer in exchange for a sacrifice.

She teased him about making a sacrifice, just before SK arrived. Also, as far as we know, all the members are supposed to be together during a sacrificial ceremony (incarnated ones excluded). Void is the one casting the Brand, so without him...