What are you watching? (television thread)

Aazealh

そうはいかぬ
Staff member
Griffith said:
I didn't think there was a novel, but just the screenplay written and directed for film by Crichton? :???:
Oh yeah you're right. I always assumed it was based on a novel because it's a Crichton story, but the book is just the screenplay. :ganishka:

Griffith said:
Anyway, yeah, despite seeming super pretentious to start it wisely was more down to earth and pretty good that way throughout, and didn't cheat the audience with it's intrigues...
well, except the part where it subverted our expectations by dangling those "bigger mysteries" only to ultimate come back around to what we expected in the first place, but with gratification delayed for season 2; if they'd told us up front no robot uprising until season 2 we'd have revolted. :ganishka:
I wasn't bothered by the plot, and in fact I'm not particularly in a hurry to get to the straight-up robots vs humans part. I certainly hope it'll be more nuanced than that actually. I did find the whole "mixing 30 years ago with today" thing a bit cheap though, because it means a lot of the characters and settings didn't change at all in that span of time, and I find that unrealistic. Young and old William also don't really look like each other. I get that it serves the big reveals and it was well done, but it still is kind of a cheap trick. A few other things were lame but overall I got what I came for.

Griffith said:
I thought they did a good job paying things off, like they came out and had a stance on most of the questions they posed instead of leaving it up to us or just folding it into another mystery.
Yeah, I thought a lot of things hinged on the last episode and I was pleased with what they did.

Griffith said:
I appreciated Ford's takes throughout for this reason, even when he was being evil.
I was pleased with how his character turned out, but I felt that the change from "devious, evil schemer" to "benevolent old schemer" was too sudden. The only thing carrying it was Hopkins' masterful acting.

Griffith said:
Of course, the danger here is the writers really have freedom to BS at any time. Anybody can be a secret robot, or a robot following programming, or be brought back as a robot, or as their real human counterpart because the one that died was a robot, etc, but hopefully the show won't fall into that or at will at least have fun while doing so.
Yeaaahhh and I already have expectations about this for S2.
 
Anybody can be a secret robot, or a robot following programming, or be brought back as a robot, or as their real human counterpart because the one that died was a robot, etc.
I will eventually finish the season, but initially this very thought of how the series would play out haulted me from much enjoyment. I made it a few episodes in and lost interest. Hopefully I'm wrong.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Salem said:
I will eventually finish the season, but initially this very thought of how the series would play out haulted me from much enjoyment. I made it a few episodes in and lost interest. Hopefully I'm wrong.
It's a card they CAN play, but they have (thus far) been judicious and meaningful about how they have played it.
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
Aazealh said:
Oh yeah you're right. I always assumed it was based on a novel because it's a Crichton story, but the book is just the screenplay. :ganishka:
I went through the same process of looking for the book and being like, "Huh, he didn't write a book (that's what he does)? I guess they're really making all this up like new... Probably for the best."

Aazealh said:
I wasn't bothered by the plot, and in fact I'm not particularly in a hurry to get to the straight-up robots vs humans part. I certainly hope it'll be more nuanced than that actually.
Yeah, at some point I realized what they were doing was more what I wanted than the expectations, but at the same time, they still need to navigate those waters in season 2 now. I hope they still have a nuanced plan as you suggested, because the whole thing is a bit reductive unless you're a true misanthrope like Ford. It also naturally leads back to the question that if the hosts are no lesser or "worse" than us are they really any better? But that's for the hosts to figure out.

Aazealh said:
I did find the whole "mixing 30 years ago with today" thing a bit cheap though, because it means a lot of the characters and settings didn't change at all in that span of time, and I find that unrealistic. Young and old William also don't really look like each other. I get that it serves the big reveals and it was well done, but it still is kind of a cheap trick. A few other things were lame but overall I got what I came for.
In retrospect it sure feels like it's not worth the time investment, so to speak,
unless we get a lot more from it and Harris in season 2. One thing about it I did like was that the man loves robot trope was ultimately subverted and Harris didn't have some come to Jesus moment because Delores remembered him. It's so the expectation that I wouldn't have even blamed them, but of course not, he was who he became for 30 years and that's rarely undone in 30 seconds. That's about the only thing that makes it special and not worse than if he were just Logan.

Aazealh said:
Yeah, I thought a lot of things hinged on the last episode and I was pleased with what they did.
Agreed, though it was a bit unnecessarily long, but that's only because they actually accomplished what they needed to say pretty efficiently, and the extra length was mostly for the grandeur of a few scenes.

Aazealh said:
I was pleased with how his character turned out, but I felt that the change from "devious, evil schemer" to "benevolent old schemer" was too sudden. The only thing carrying it was Hopkins' masterful acting.
The complexities of the character's motives on paper aside, it was really just a vehicle for Hopkins to vacillate between his
Ted Brautigan and Hannibal Lecter
personas, which are delightfully whimsical of course. Basically Anthony Hopkins playing Dr. Anthony Hopkins for our pleasure.

Aazealh said:
Yeaaahhh and I already have expectations about this for S2.
So, did Ford have Delores shoot a host version of him because he doesn't have Arnold's conviction and/or couldn't resist seeing how it all played out or was his conviction to be reincarnated as one of them, our evolutionary successors, like Bernarnold? And will they get right to this or does it hinge on if season 2 is a hit without him? =) Finally, when do we find out you're really a host created to be some perfect curator of Berserk information? I mean that as a compliment of course, "Aaz, what are these sketches Miura did of you?" "They don't look like anything to me." =)

Salem said:
I will eventually finish the season, but initially this very thought of how the series would play out haulted me from much enjoyment. I made it a few episodes in and lost interest. Hopefully I'm wrong.
Walter said:
It's a card they CAN play, but they have (thus far) been judicious and meaningful about how they have played it.
True, it's been well supported and for maximum effect.
I also appreciated Felix, whose still a fucking moron unless he's outright Ford's agent, having that "Am I?" moment only to have Maeve admonish him.


BTW, can we talk about the soundtrack? Not the pop song remixes but the cool ambient stuff that sounds right out of Mass Effect (which I'm happy they used it liberally). :guts:
 
Regarding Westworld there were things I liked and things I didn't quite like. Some of the stuff I liked has already been mentioned, so I'd like to mention stuff I didn't quite like instead. One of the things I didn't like was how
Felix and Sylvester just went along with whatever Maeve told them to do, as the given motivations for why they did it were really hard to believe (to me at least). Another thing I didn't quite like is how they handled the dual timeline situation, particularly how the show seemed intent on keeping confirmation of it as some sort of big reveal. Because of the way they did things in general one had to go over what had happened in previous episodes and consider the information given then in light of new information presented in the latest episode, and I'm not sure that's a good way of going about things, at least I'm not a fan of such an approach.
Finally, in parts the show seemed to not be moving forward at all, and it wasn't always easy getting through certain episodes.

All in all I did like the show, but there were things I wish were done better. In any case I will be watching when the show comes back in 2018.

Griffith said:
BTW, can we talk about the soundtrack? Not the pop song remixes but the cool ambient stuff that sounds right out of Mass Effect (which I'm happy they used it liberally). :guts:
I for one liked all of the soundtrack, pop song remixes included. Part of the fun of watching the show was wondering if I would recognize any of the songs, and I think for the most part the songs were done and used very well. I particularly enjoyed the presence of the Radiohead's songs I identified, with Exit Music being a highlight (speaking of Radiohead, I can't believe I'm finally set to watch them live after almost twenty years).
 

Aazealh

そうはいかぬ
Staff member
Griffith said:
I went through the same process of looking for the book and being like, "Huh, he didn't write a book (that's what he does)? I guess they're really making all this up like new... Probably for the best."
The original movie still laid down a foundation that this show is very clearly built on. And for what it's worth I think the original is superior in several areas. This is by all means a successful reboot though, and I wish every reboot was as reverential and on-point as this one.

Griffith said:
Yeah, at some point I realized what they were doing was more what I wanted than the expectations, but at the same time, they still need to navigate those waters in season 2 now. I hope they still have a nuanced plan as you suggested, because the whole thing is a bit reductive unless you're a true misanthrope like Ford.
Yep. And for all the enjoyment I got out of seeing Dolores destroy Old Billy ("oh what ravages time does, one day you'll die and become dust, the dust I will walk on as an immortal new ruler of this world"), this kind of super bitter, super cold and dehumanized rationale doesn't really go well with the rest of her character. The same way Maeve's "calculating queen bitch" mode just doesn't make for a credible "boohoo my poor daughter" transition.

Griffith said:
In retrospect it sure feels like it's not worth the time investment, so to speak,
unless we get a lot more from it and Harris in season 2. One thing about it I did like was that the man loves robot trope was ultimately subverted and Harris didn't have some come to Jesus moment because Delores remembered him. It's so the expectation that I wouldn't have even blamed them, but of course not, he was who he became for 30 years and that's rarely undone in 30 seconds. That's about the only thing that makes it special and not worse than if he were just Logan.
I think we will get more of it. Dolores and William's story isn't over IMHO. And I think he might even end up waxing poetic about how different things could have been had she truly awoken all those years ago, when he first fell in love with her. That would work best if he was dying at her hand as he delivered it, of course. I would vastly prefer that to something lame like Maeve killing him. UNLESS she did as Dolores was forgiving him, herself not having the heart to kill him after all.

P.S. Speaking of Logan, that was such a confusing conclusion for him (Where'd he go on that horse? Did he die? Did he go crazy? :???:) that I kinda expect to hear more in the future.

Griffith said:
So, did Ford have Delores shoot a host version of him because he doesn't have Arnold's conviction and/or couldn't resist seeing how it all played out or was his conviction to be reincarnated as one of them, our evolutionary successors, like Bernarnold? And will they get right to this or does it hinge on if season 2 is a hit without him? =)
Well you just about summed up my main Ford hypotheses. :ganishka: I think resurrecting him as a different, younger host (played by an actor who would cost a lot less) would be the easiest – and probably laziest – option.

Griffith said:
Finally, when do we find out you're really a host created to be some perfect curator of Berserk information? I mean that as a compliment of course, "Aaz, what are these sketches Miura did of you?" "They don't look like anything to me." =)
:ganishka: That had me genuinely laugh to myself on the train while commuting.

Griffith said:
I also appreciated Felix, whose still a fucking moron unless he's outright Ford's agent, having that "Am I?" moment only to have Maeve admonish him.
Hahaha, I don't know man, he's TOO stupid for me to be honest. They probably should have fleshed out his humanistic reasons and/or cowardice better...

Griffith said:
BTW, can we talk about the soundtrack? Not the pop song remixes but the cool ambient stuff that sounds right out of Mass Effect (which I'm happy they used it liberally). :guts:
Yeah I enjoyed it, even the intro, the piano stuff...

m said:
One of the things I didn't like was how
Felix and Sylvester just went along with whatever Maeve told them to do, as the given motivations for why they did it were really hard to believe (to me at least).
Yes, that's one of the biggest flaws. The fact Maeve wasn't awaken but only following a new storyline solved the previous problem I had with her, which is that I didn't find her very convincing as a sentient being. But Felix and whatshisname were complete morons the whole time (Felix in particular), to the point that I'm surprised it wasn't revealed Felix at least is a host... And I'm still not ruling that out for season 2.

m said:
Another thing I didn't quite like is how they handled the dual timeline situation, particularly how the show seemed intent on keeping confirmation of it as some sort of big reveal. Because of the way they did things in general one had to go over what had happened in previous episodes and consider the information given then in light of new information presented in the latest episode, and I'm not sure that's a good way of going about things, at least I'm not a fan of such an approach.
That closely mirrors what I said in my previous post!
 
Aazealh said:
... to the point that I'm surprised it wasn't revealed Felix at least is a host... And I'm still not ruling that out for season 2.
Didn't Maeve already confirmed that Felix is human? It may have been when he realized that Bernard was a host.
But who knows, perhaps it's not the case and this is one more reveal they're holding on to for as long as they can.

Aazealh said:
That closely mirrors what I said in my previous post!
When I posted I thought my problems with the whole dual timeline thing were not the same you had, but after re-reading your post I realized that perhaps they were not that different after all. :farnese:
 

Aazealh

そうはいかぬ
Staff member
m said:
Didn't Maeve already confirmed that Felix is human? It may have been when he realized that Bernard was a host.
But who knows, perhaps it's not the case and this is one more reveal they're holding on to for as long as they can.
She did, but I don't think she's necessarily a reliable indicator. She's still following her programming, unlike Dolores. It'd only be a matter of her being programmed to not see that he was one. Kinda lame, I know, but his absolute stupidity is even lamer. He should have never gone that far, and his dumbass coworker should have reported him long ago as well. Their behavior is not believable at all.
 

Oburi

All praise Grail
You guys realize I started a thread for Westworld back in July of 2014? :ganishka: http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=14384.0
I thought it was going to be very interesting at the time (I always thought the original had a really cool concept and it would be perfect for an updated version) but it seems I was the only one :judo:. Sadly I haven't had time to watch it yet but I will soon hopefully.
 

Aazealh

そうはいかぬ
Staff member
Oburi said:
You guys realize I started a thread for Westworld back in July of 2014? :ganishka: http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=14384.0
I thought it was going to be very interesting at the time (I always thought the original had a really cool concept and it would be perfect for an updated version) but it seems I was the only one :judo:. Sadly I haven't had time to watch it yet but I will soon hopefully.
Sorry bro, you were too early. :slan:
 
Aazealh said:
She did, but I don't think she's necessarily a reliable indicator. She's still following her programming, unlike Dolores. It'd only be a matter of her being programmed to not see that he was one.
True.
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
m said:
I for one liked all of the soundtrack, pop song remixes included. Part of the fun of watching the show was wondering if I would recognize any of the songs
That's what I didn't like about it, every time I recognized a song it took me out of the show a little. Fortunately, I'm unhip enough that it wasn't a chronic problem. :ganishka:

Aazealh said:
The original movie still laid down a foundation that this show is very clearly built on. And for what it's worth I think the original is superior in several areas. This is by all means a successful reboot though, and I wish every reboot was as reverential and on-point as this one.
I still haven't seen it (maybe this weekend)! But it sounds cool and I'm even a bit disappointed they didn't find a way to make it canon to the show. I'm just glad they're largely extrapolating from that rather than butchering a much larger original work.

Aazealh said:
Yep. And for all the enjoyment I got out of seeing Dolores destroy Old Billy ("oh what ravages time does, one day you'll die and become dust, the dust I will walk on as an immortal new ruler of this world"), this kind of super bitter, super cold and dehumanized rationale doesn't really go well with the rest of her character. The same way Maeve's "calculating queen bitch" mode just doesn't make for a credible "boohoo my poor daughter" transition.
Yeah, I liked Delores' speech, but it's indeed a weird little role reversal our robotic heroines have going. I guess going against type best highlights their change though, if a bit clumsily. I think it works better for Maeve because she's truly behaving irrationally like a human being, whereas Delores is suddenly the superior being bent on destruction.

Aazealh said:
I think we will get more of it. Dolores and William's story isn't over IMHO. And I think he might even end up waxing poetic about how different things could have been had she truly awoken all those years ago, when he first fell in love with her. That would work best if he was dying at her hand as he delivered it, of course. I would vastly prefer that to something lame like Maeve killing him. UNLESS she did as Dolores was forgiving him, herself not having the heart to kill him after all.
You big romantic. :casca:
There is potential there though, like he could still be wormed into her heart (which would be significant considering her change), and show the capacity of humans and hosts alike to be evil but also to change and be redeemed. Plus, she's basically put on the black hat now and it's a thin line between a righteous fight for life and a massacre (and the humans presumably don't get to come back).

Aazealh said:
P.S. Speaking of Logan, that was such a confusing conclusion for him (Where'd he go on that horse? Did he die? Did he go crazy? :???:) that I kinda expect to hear more in the future.
This was a topic of derision among friends
; so, humble William falls in love with a robot, goes berserk and physically assaults and humiliates the heir to the company and dad and the board is just like, "Screw my son, have my daughter you don't love and the company!" I guess William's newfound dominanmce simply translated back to their real lives (Logan was practically ugly crying, "You're an animal!" at the end)? Maybe they just didn't

record everything back then and Logan came off looking more like a loser lunatic. *shrugs* =)

Aazealh said:
Well you just about summed up my main Ford hypotheses. :ganishka: I think resurrecting him as a different, younger host (played by an actor who would cost a lot less) would be the easiest – and probably laziest – option.
HBO: You're hired! Unless they're actively seeking out the most expensive alternatives for the prestige, which may be true. "Spared no expense!" BTW, wouldn't Richard Attenborough have been even better as Ford, since he's the proto-Ford anyway, and he would contrast even better when things got heavy?

Aazealh said:
:ganishka: That had me genuinely laugh to myself on the train while commuting.
:badbone:

Aazealh said:
Hahaha, I don't know man, he's TOO stupid for me to be honest. They probably should have fleshed out his humanistic reasons and/or cowardice better...
Yeah... speaking of going host, I really had to compartmentalize that part of the show deep in my brain in order to keep accepting the reality of it, "It doesn't look like anything to me."

Aazealh said:
Yeah I enjoyed it, even the intro, the piano stuff...
Me too, and I've got a minor challenge for you if you're game: which Mass Effect track is "Freeze All Motor Functions" making me think of?

Oburi said:
You guys realize I started a thread for Westworld back in July of 2014? :ganishka: http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=14384.0 I thought it was going to be very interesting at the time (I always thought the original had a really cool concept and it would be perfect for an updated version) but it seems I was the only one :judo:. Sadly I haven't had time to watch it yet but I will soon hopefully.
Aazealh said:
Sorry bro, you were too early. :slan:
And, impressively, also too late. :ganishka:
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
I don't have nearly as much to say about Westworld as you guys do, I guess. I've been watching since the pilot, and I enjoyed it -- it was much better than I thought it'd be. I love anything that attempts to address humanity's relationship with AI, and that's at the center of this show. So a few stupid plots aside, it's been fun.

For the finale, I wasn't surprised by many of the big reveals, but they pulled nearly everything off much more elegantly than I was expecting. I think the added length helped give the characters some time to let all the left turns percolate on screen.
Case in point, the full William reveal, with the hat wiping the transition, was very well done.
I guess I was preparing for something in LOST territory, delivered verbally, paired with shitty horns/violins blaring, cut to commercial.

William is man in black. The Maze is a path to consciousness. Dolores is Wyatt, and the cannibalism shit was just nonsense, I guess? Dolores must gain the ability to kill a human, bypassing her previous limitations, to become truly free (and does). The uprising happens, putting Season 2 in a much more interesting spot. And last but not least — providing William with exactly what he wanted from the park (which made me think of Zodd in Fantasia :zodd: )

The Hector and Snake Chick shooting scenes were terribly choreographed — just as I’ve come to expect from this show. Oh well. Maybe next season they'll up their budget and get some decent action scenes? The show could certainly use it. The number of "off camera shots fired" sequences were getting pretty bad.

Behnahd (my favorite character) basically did nothing in this episode, except alluding to Maeve that she has been “awakened” before. Unsure of what to expect from him moving into the new season. He seems the most unchanged.

Ford’s role subverted from evil monster to evil monster with a heart of gold for robots? Okay, I'll bite. But I'm willing to bet that Ford's role isn't actually over. His shadow will loom large somehow in season 2, or I think it would be missing something.

Speaking of Season 2, there are a delightful number of ways it could go, and that's very refreshing for a show of this ilk. I'll always respect a good, ballsy new direction. The park can't (easily) continue to operate as things are, but I can foresee a comedic way of them starting the next episode by humans pretending everything is just fiiiine -- perfectly safe! The rumors of uprising are ex-exaggerated! A few glitches on the periphery of the world, well away from our sex saloon!

That being said, I think the show still hasn't quite explored how out of control this could truly spiral, or even really dipped their toes into what kind of society or culture the hosts would make for themselves if truly "free." I'm hoping it's not just "humans but with longer life spans."
 

Aazealh

そうはいかぬ
Staff member
Griffith said:
I still haven't seen it (maybe this weekend)! But it sounds cool and I'm even a bit disappointed they didn't find a way to make it canon to the show. I'm just glad they're largely extrapolating from that rather than butchering a much larger original work.
Ehh, frankly I think they came pretty damn close. There's a lot of parallels and quasi-references that kind of make sense. I'll be more than happy to talk about it once you've seen it.

Griffith said:
You big romantic. :casca:
There is potential there though, like he could still be wormed into her heart (which would be significant considering her change), and show the capacity of humans and hosts alike to be evil but also to change and be redeemed. Plus, she's basically put on the black hat now and it's a thin line between a righteous fight for life and a massacre (and the humans presumably don't get to come back).
Guilty as charged! And I just think it'd be more interesting than PURE EVIL or whatever, and also make better use of season 1 having been all about establishing their common history.

Griffith said:
This was a topic of derision among friends
; so, humble William falls in love with a robot, goes berserk and physically assaults and humiliates the heir to the company and dad and the board is just like, "Screw my son, have my daughter you don't love and the company!" I guess William's newfound dominanmce simply translated back to their real lives (Logan was practically ugly crying, "You're an animal!" at the end)? Maybe they just didn't record everything back then and Logan came off looking more like a loser lunatic. *shrugs* =)
Yeah I mean it could be explained a number of ways, but the fact it was left open felt odd to me, like this wasn't concluded and there's some more in store, even if it's just a mention in passing.

Griffith said:
BTW, wouldn't Richard Attenborough have been even better as Ford, since he's the proto-Ford anyway, and he would contrast even better when things got heavy?
Hmm I don't know, I mean Hopkins really brought all of his subtle creepy-viciousness to the role and I'm not sure Richard Attenborough had that same unease-inspiring power in him. He was more of a misguided old fool in Jurassic Park.

Griffith said:
Me too, and I've got a minor challenge for you if you're game: which Mass Effect track is "Freeze All Motor Functions" making me think of?
SAREN!
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
Walter said:
I guess I was preparing for something in LOST territory, delivered verbally, paired with shitty horns/violins blaring, cut to commercial.
It's funny you mention LOST because I think all of us Lost vets we're having flashbacks (or forwards, or sideways :mozgus:) going in because this show was attempting to tackle BIG QUESTIONS that there aren't easy answers to. E.G. "What is humanity?" Which isn't far removed from, "What's the meaning of life?" The pilot certainly made the series seem poised with promise it couldn't possibly deliver on. But instead it went more down to earth, had a concrete premise going in, which helps, and it set some rules and kind of just wound things up and let it play out in a relatively practical, simple and organic manner rather than trying to come to some overly profound conclusion
(the exception being the timelines, but it was an ambitiously fun gimmick and beside the point
. Ford's very concise explanation,
"my pain is no different than yours"
is perfectly adequate and ordinary enough to ring true. It may have been clumsy at times, and maybe didn't have the best answers to these questions, but it tried to actually do the math and show its work, for good or bad.

Walter said:
William is man in black. The Maze is a path to consciousness. Dolores is Wyatt, and the cannibalism shit was just nonsense, I guess? Dolores must gain the ability to kill a human, bypassing her previous limitations, to become truly free (and does). The uprising happens, putting Season 2 in a much more interesting spot. And last but not least — providing William with exactly what he wanted from the park (which made me think of Zodd in Fantasia :zodd: )
My inner fan-fiction writer kinda hopes Delores recreates young William as the MIB's nemesis. Just because I want McPoyle back for season 2. Can we talk about him playing a leading man role? He went full McPoyle too when Logan cut open Delores. =)

Walter said:
Behnahd (my favorite character) basically did nothing in this episode, except alluding to Maeve that she has been “awakened” before. Unsure of what to expect from him moving into the new season. He seems the most unchanged.
Also mine, and really the most "awake" and human to me, because Delores is somewhat incomprehensible despite being the designated sentient one. Bernard is actually just like a regular, conflicted guy that happens to be a robot.

Walter said:
Ford’s role subverted from evil monster to evil monster with a heart of gold for robots? Okay, I'll bite. But I'm willing to bet that Ford's role isn't actually over. His shadow will loom large somehow in season 2, or I think it would be missing something.
I hope so and agree, I'm just worried that that something will be missing.

Walter said:
Speaking of Season 2, there are a delightful number of ways it could go, and that's very refreshing for a show of this ilk. I'll always respect a good, ballsy new direction. The park can't (easily) continue to operate as things are, but I can foresee a comedic way of them starting the next episode by humans pretending everything is just fiiiine -- perfectly safe! The rumors of uprising are ex-exaggerated! A few glitches on the periphery of the world, well away from our sex saloon!
Walter said:
That being said, I think the show still hasn't quite explored how out of control this could truly spiral, or even really dipped their toes into what kind of society or culture the hosts would make for themselves if truly "free." I'm hoping it's not just "humans but with longer life spans."
I think the floodgates are already busted wude6 open for good, the park is done, and now it's all out war/Escape from New York time for the humans and robots alike. Any new "players" will be paramilitary types. The latter questions you raise will be for the hosts to debate among themselves, though I'm sure with some human prodding. This should all make for some strange bedfellows.

Aazealh said:
Ehh, frankly I think they came pretty damn close. There's a lot of parallels and quasi-references that kind of make sense. I'll be more than happy to talk about it once you've seen it.
Well, I know about the basic premise with the MIB and the two visitors, so I already see potential parallels there, plus the "old design" of the original hosts. It sounds like some real care was taken.

Aazealh said:
Guilty as charged! And I just think it'd be more interesting than PURE EVIL or whatever, and also make better use of season 1 having been all about establishing their common history.
Agreed, we really didn't get a lot out of it in the end and what the hell happened to his sense of wonder? He seems rather dull in the end.

Aazealh said:
Yeah I mean it could be explained a number of ways, but the fact it was left open felt odd to me, like this wasn't concluded and there's some more in store, even if it's just a mention in passing.
I'd like to see him again too, he went through a rather humbling change as well. I wouldn't be surprised if that's it though.

Aazealh said:
Hmm I don't know, I mean Hopkins really brought all of his subtle creepy-viciousness to the role and I'm not sure Richard Attenborough had that same unease-inspiring power in him. He was more of a misguided old fool in Jurassic Park.
I feel like he could be very creepy though in his conviction. Truly like a crazy old obsessive. I need to do some youtube research. =)

Aazealh said:
You didn't disappoint me. :guts:
 

NightCrawler

Aeons gone, vast, mad and deathless
So Ford spent 30 years trying to fix his mistake regarding the essential consciousness of hosts, but also spent the vast majority of that time brutalizing hosts. Before the finale, he shot Bernard for daring to make a claim for consciousness and independence. Why? Also, if his new narrative was about recreating Arnold's death and setting the hosts free, why maneuver against Theresa and the board at all? Why make threats? Why kill Theresa when you know her replacement would pursue you anyway, and why kill Elsie during an investigation that would ostensibly help you? Also, why risk your reprogramming of Maeve to rely on the world historical stupidity and recklessness of low level techs, when you (apparently) could have just recoded her to be homicide-capable?

Where is Stubbs and why does his disappearance matter at all?

How bad is Westworld's security if you can just walk around shooting dozens of people with barely any problems?

If you've created guns that only work on hosts, why do you have real guns inside the administration building?

If there are other parks, why is all of this nonsense confined to just Westworld?

Anyway fun show, that is hardly consistent outside of the pilot and finale.
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
N7Paladin said:
Finished it, you weren't kidding. It was fantastic. :serpico:
Glad you liked it! And yeah, the first season alone is transcendent in its multilayered storytelling, characterization, and themes. It's truly like a novel and the only thing I've seen that rivals it are a couple of seasons of The Wire.

Also, now you can read this insanity:

https://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/the-sopranos-definitive-explanation-of-the-end/

:magni:
 
Thanks, I'll have to read that. I've already started re-watching it because I'm sure I missed a ton of little things my first time through, already I've picked up on a few things I didn't catch the first time.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Griffith said:
Sounds like a great show, assuming that's a euphemism!
I started watching The Leftovers on HBO. First episode seemed promising, and I've heard it gets better as it goes. But then I noticed his name as the creator and writer. And now I can't watch it.
 
Walter said:
I started watching The Leftovers on HBO. First episode seemed promising, and I've heard it gets better as it goes. But then I noticed his name as the creator and writer. And now I can't watch it.
I've watched the two seasons. The second season has some very strong points, I guess. It has some of the best acting I've seen on TV since The Sopranos and a bunch of fun episodes. But if you're repelled by this guy's writing, then just stay away from it. He hasn't really learned how to write, even if some episodes are creative with where they go.

I think the right thing to do when recommending this show is to say it's set in the Lost Cinematic Universe (LCU). That way, if the person decides to watch it, it's their own fault.
 
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