Author Topic: Episode 354  (Read 13053 times)

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Offline Archer1215

Re: Episode 354
« Reply #100 on: March 02, 2018, 10:25:01 PM »
You're mistaken. The sexual assault isn't the "real" reason Casca feared Guts. She became afraid of Guts after he strangled her. This is very clearly depicted in the manga and we see Guts reflect on it. That's why he then tied her up (which made her hate him more). The fact he forcefully kissed her and bit her breast several days or weeks later didn't help with the situation, but she had already stopped trusting him at that time (which is why she fled while he dozed off and stumbled into the brigands' camp). And we never see that second assault as making a difference in her behavior.

You're right, I should have chosen my words more carefully. But the point of that particular comment of mine was really that it was a personal moment between Guts and Casca that will be need to be dealt with between the two of them.

Well sure, but let's not forget what Guts & Casca's relationship was like to begin with. For example how she stabbed him with a sword before they first made love, or how he strangled her (then broke down crying) during the act. Like I said, it's not that those scenes are unimportant, but we have to remember who the real Casca was. A warrior who could fend for herself. A military leader who stood up to Guts when it was needed. That's the Casca we're getting back.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. At least, not right off the bat. We aren't sure how Casca is going to react to regaining her sanity and her memories of the Eclipse. Personally, I don't think we will be getting the confident warrior/commander from the Golden Age. She is going to have a lot of issues to deal with upon returning. I think rebuilding her confidence as a soldier and a leader will be one of the primary subjects of her future character arc. I doubt we will be getting that Casca back for a long time, or at the very least not until she has had plenty of time to process and deal with her current situation.

And of course, things are very different now, but that's also kind of the point. They both went through the Eclipse, and it has left a trauma that has dwarfed everything else. Guts is still completely haunted by it, and we've already been warned that Casca will be as well. I think everything else will be secondary to that, and to their objectives going forward (i.e. their son). Which is why it seems to me that people who focus too much on those two scenes from volume 23 are missing the big picture.

As Griffith said, I don't think the assault is necessarily removed from the big picture. Casca is going to have a lot of things to deal with upon waking up, including her feelings regarding the Eclipse, her child (and maybe its connection to Griffith, but of that I'm less certain), and of course her feelings regarding Guts. While I agree that how she deals with the Eclipse will be the primary focus upon her waking up, her feelings about Guts will still need to be tackled at some point. And that deals with a whole list of issues, such as Guts abandoning her for two years, her assault, perhaps taking her to Elfhelm to restore her sanity without her "permission" (although this would be a bit irrational of her, I could still see her having this reaction as a result of her distress with the stuation), and potentially even contention concerning their child.

I don't think the assault will be a new pivotal plot point that will cause a rift between them either, because there already is a rift between them. And just like Casca dealing with her trauma, I think this is something that shouldn't be healed away with magic. It should be something that they work through and deal with the consequences of together.

I think Guts will feel bad about his past behavior (he really was an asshole to the child). I've never forgotten the two pages at the end of episode 238 where he thinks about him. I think they're indicative of what's to come. There's tons of ways this could go, of course, but to me the real deal down the line will be facing the fact the boy is essentially fused with Femto. That could lead to an impossible choice: should they try to kill Griffith and kill their son in the process? It's easy to see how Guts and Casca could fall on opposite sides of the issue (though I would hope that all would end well eventually).

I think Episode 238 shows that he may have more ambivalent feelings towards him if nothing else. He doesn't feel anger or hatred when thinking of the child. Instead he seems more sad when he thinks that he may still be wandering around alone in the night.

But on the topic of the child being fused with Griffith's vessel (and the two of them probably sharing a body as well), I could definitely see both parents falling on opposite  sides of the issue as you say. Even though Guts has resolved to protect Casca over taking revenge on Griffith, he still has that temptation gnawing at him with Griffith now being where his sword can reach him. How will he feel if he learns that Griffith now has a potential weakness he can exploit to actually kill him (if it is indeed a weakness)? He would be conflicted I'm sure, but I think the thought of exploiting his son's connection to Griffith would make his desire for revenge (and maybe even his dissatisfaction with prioritizing Casca) grow even stronger.

And as for Casca, I think her own feelings towards her child might be just as complex as Guts' are. She has shown a strong motherly instinct towards her son while her mind was regressed, but with the knowledge of him sharing a body with Femto, the man who raped her and sacrificed her comrades/subordinates to be slaughtered, I could easily see her contemplating or even making the decision that killing him would be for the best. It should also be taken into account that there might not be a way to free their child, and Guts and Casca will be made aware of this from the onset. That would make it less an issue of difference in motivation and more a conflict for both parents to suffer through in their own ways, perhaps even causing the rift between them to widen.

Chiming in here from the peanut gallery. I just wanted to say that it's pretty amazing that we're having these conversations now, when it's no longer a distant hypothetical for when these issues will actually be addressed in the story. We really made it!  :ubik:

I had a similar moment replying to Aaz earlier where I had to correct myself talking about Casca's return like it was still coming. She's already back!  :guts: :casca:

I feel so happy for you guys who have been keeping up with the series for so long. Maybe one day when we reach the next big milestone for the series (or even the climax of the series) I can be in a similar position.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 354
« Reply #101 on: March 03, 2018, 10:35:02 AM »
Or, yeah, they just have to kill their kid to Griffith for the greater good and it'll be as bad as that sounds. I'd be surprised though if there's not going to be some crazy yet hard won magical solution because that's completely consistent with how we got here (magic ceremonies), so it's a fair game solution as well (and we just went through a fantastic ritual to save/restore a character =). It's almost too perfect a motivation for Griffith's destruction, and the effort that would take, to coincide with the child's salvation, as well as our heroes and the world.

Yep, all good scenarios you listed and I think it'll fall somewhere in-between all those lines. They will be compelled to face Griffith to save the world, and their connection to him will be both a blessing and a curse. Their son will act as a unique Achilles' heel, but at the same time they will be torn over his potential fate. Casca will want to save him above all, while Guts will struggle to get past his overwhelming desire for revenge. And ultimately they'll manage Ė in extremis Ė to achieve the perfect result of killing Femto while saving the boy... but at what cost to themselves?

But the point of that particular comment of mine was really that it was a personal moment between Guts and Casca that will be need to be dealt with between the two of them.

Sure, although I don't think anyone was saying otherwise (well, except you in the previous episode thread).

As Griffith said, I don't think the assault is necessarily removed from the big picture.

Well I also didn't say it is "removed" from the big picture, just that it's a detail in it among many others, and not the most important one.

I don't think the assault will be a new pivotal plot point that will cause a rift between them either, because there already is a rift between them. And just like Casca dealing with her trauma, I think this is something that shouldn't be healed away with magic. It should be something that they work through and deal with the consequences of together.

I disagree. Casca was afraid of Guts (and of all men in general) in her previous state, but that person is gone. In fact it wasn't so much a person as an absence of one. Guts and Casca's relationship is effectively getting a reset here. If there has to be a chill between them, I don't think it will simply be inherited from the time she was insane. I don't think she'll wake up and instinctively be distrustful of Guts. Because even if she keeps her memories from that period or has flashes of them from time to time (I quite like that idea), her personality will make a big difference in how she processes them.

I think Episode 238 shows that he may have more ambivalent feelings towards him if nothing else. He doesn't feel anger or hatred when thinking of the child. Instead he seems more sad when he thinks that he may still be wandering around alone in the night.

Yeah that's what I was talking about.

But on the topic of the child being fused with Griffith's vessel (and the two of them probably sharing a body as well)

Just to be clear, the term "vessel" here refers specifically to the body. The child's corporeal body was overtaken by Femto during the Incarnation ceremony (where Femto "took flesh"), but his ego somehow survived the procedure.

I think the thought of exploiting his son's connection to Griffith would make his desire for revenge (and maybe even his dissatisfaction with prioritizing Casca) grow even stronger.

I'm sure the Beast of Darkness would find the idea delectable, but I doubt Guts as a whole would be fine with the boy's death. Also, there is no need to prioritize Casca's protection anymore, since she's cured.

She has shown a strong motherly instinct towards her son while her mind was regressed, but with the knowledge of him sharing a body with Femto, the man who raped her and sacrificed her comrades/subordinates to be slaughtered, I could easily see her contemplating or even making the decision that killing him would be for the best.

I have a hard time imagining Casca being Ok with killing her son.

Offline Archer1215

Re: Episode 354
« Reply #102 on: March 03, 2018, 12:47:34 PM »

Sure, although I don't think anyone was saying otherwise (well, except you in the previous episode thread).

I've actually changed my mind on that bit after having separate discussions with you and Walter (not that it was a particularly good idea to begin with). One of the benefits of reading/discussing things on this site, I'm always learning new things about the story and finding new ways to look at past events. So from those discussions I came to the conclusion that there was no need for other characters to become involved In that ordeal, not when it was something personal between Guts and Casca. Not to mention the original scenario I had in mind didn't come to pass (for the good of things), so I don't think there is any need to cling to it desperately.

I disagree. Casca was afraid of Guts (and of all men in general) in her previous state, but that person is gone. In fact it wasn't so much a person as an absence of one. Guts and Casca's relationship is effectively getting a reset here. If there has to be a chill between them, I don't think it will simply be inherited from the time she was insane. I don't think she'll wake up and instinctively be distrustful of Guts. Because even if she keeps her memories from that period or has flashes of them from time to time (I quite like that idea), her personality will make a big difference in how she processes them.

Sure, but I don't think I said anything about her having the same exact feelings. Just that there was a rift and that I didn't expect it to be filled just because she has regained her sanity and memories. She will process and deal with things much differently upon waking up, but that doesn't mean she will be fine with any of the selfish things Guts has done in her absence, nor that she will be completely rational about things. This ritual in the Corridor of Dreams has just been the beginning of Casca's healing process. It didn't heal away her trauma and it won't automatically settle any issues she might have with Guts.

Of course, this is provided she remembers any of her post-Eclipse memories upon waking up. I would personally be a bit disappointed if she doesn't remember them in some capacity, but it is still a possibility that she won't remember them initially.

Yeah that's what I was talking about.

Yeah, it was what you were talking about.  :slan:


Just to be clear, the term "vessel" here refers specifically to the body. The child's corporeal body was overtaken by Femto during the Incarnation ceremony (where Femto "took flesh"), but his ego somehow survived the procedure.

Yeah, I was trying to draw a distinction between "vessel" and "body" in regards to the Moonlight Boy using Griffith's "body" (being your theory that isn't yet confirmed, but has evidence to support it) and the two obviously sharing a "vessel" due to Femto being incarnated into the Physical World and the child either being part of the process or a foreign element in the process. And the result was that what I said didn't make any sense. Sorry about that. I'll try to be more concise in the future.

I'm sure the Beast of Darkness would find the idea delectable, but I doubt Guts as a whole would be fine with the boy's death. Also, there is no need to prioritize Casca's protection anymore, since she's cured.

Not sure why you're drawing a distinction here. And well, I did say he would be conflicted. He isn't a monster, so I doubt he would be "fine" with killing the child either. But the temptation will no doubt be there, and I could even see him making the decision to exploit the child's connection in some way in order to get revenge (whether that be killing him, or using that connection to "control" or "influence" Griffith in some way, but that's too far ahead).

As for Casca, I don't know if her need for protection is necessarily over just yet, seeing as she still has to deal with the trauma of the Eclipse. She may not even want to fight at first and decide to hide away from everything on Skellig. In fact, I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that Guts and Casca might just decide to stay on the island and live in peace for the rest of their lives. Guts would be far from satisfied with that, but if she did make that decision, then Guts isn't going to drop her there and go straight to Falconia (not that you didn't already know this yourself). Nor would it last forever seeing as the story has to continue. Long story short, she is "healed", but I'm not so certain that Guts' struggle between Casca and Griffith is over yet. But it could definitely still exist in another form that doesn't include Guts protecting her, such as possible contention over whether to exploit the connection their child.

I have a hard time imagining Casca being Ok with killing her son.

Poor choice of words (again), but I don't see any scenario where Casca is "okay" with killing her son. At the same time, we don't have any idea how Casca is going to feel about her son or his connection to Griffith. As you said, before she was an "absence of a person" whose love for her child was entirely instinctual. How will she process her knowledge of the child with a restored mindset and memories of the Eclipse?

Note that I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just trying to keep my mind open to different possibilities for the future of the story. I do believe that Casca's feelings towards the child will be a bit complicated however (which almost goes without saying). Maybe she will be just as ambivalent as Guts is, but still fall on the opposite side of the fence in regards to how they should handle the situation.


Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 354
« Reply #103 on: March 03, 2018, 02:22:57 PM »
This ritual in the Corridor of Dreams has just been the beginning of Casca's healing process. It didn't heal away her trauma and it won't automatically settle any issues she might have with Guts.

You're confusing two different things. It's true Casca's trauma wasn't healed by the ritual and that she'll have to deal with it going forward. I was the first to say it. But that doesn't mean she'll show the same symptoms. Otherwise the Corridor of Dreams would have all been for nothing. The reflexive fear she had of men went along with her insanity. Now that it's cured, there's no reason to assume it will remain. And her "issues with Guts" that you are referring to were a subset of that general fear of men. It wasn't specific to him. She was afraid of him like of every other guy, then he managed to gain her trust, then lost it. I feel like I'm repeating myself here, but if they are to have issues to sort through, I would expect them to be of a higher order.

Yeah, it was what you were talking about.  :slan:

Yes... Which makes me wonder why you felt the need to reiterate it.

Not sure why you're drawing a distinction here.

You're not sure why I'm drawing a distinction between the Beast of Darkness and Guts generally? OK... Well there is more to Guts than just the Beast of Darkness. Miura created that character to show Guts' internal struggle. What the Beast wants isn't what Guts himself really wants. It's just a part of him, not the whole. That's why I distinguish the two.

I could even see him making the decision to exploit the child's connection in some way in order to get revenge (whether that be killing him, or using that connection to "control" or "influence" Griffith in some way, but that's too far ahead).

They will necessarily have to exploit that connection to defeat Griffith in any case, as I'm sure you've read me say in the past.

As for Casca, I don't know if her need for protection is necessarily over just yet, seeing as she still has to deal with the trauma of the Eclipse. She may not even want to fight at first and decide to hide away from everything on Skellig.

This is obviously not the same thing as her not being able to take care of herself because of her madness... That time has come to an end.

I do believe that Casca's feelings towards the child will be a bit complicated however (which almost goes without saying).

Sure. Most of my interventions are to point out that things are more complicated and nuanced than people think. Everything we've been talking about here is guaranteed to involve complex emotions and circumstances.

Offline Archer1215

Re: Episode 354
« Reply #104 on: March 03, 2018, 07:14:21 PM »
Yes... Which makes me wonder why you felt the need to reiterate it.

I didn't even really think about it. I just took your point and reiterated it before going into my own thoughts, and didn't really think it would be an issue. I wasn't trying to be rude or anything if that's the impression I gave off. If it is frowned upon, I'll try to refrain from doing so in the future.

You're confusing two different things. It's true Casca's trauma wasn't healed by the ritual and that she'll have to deal with it going forward. I was the first to say it. But that doesn't mean she'll show the same symptoms. Otherwise the Corridor of Dreams would have all been for nothing. The reflexive fear she had of men went along with her insanity. Now that it's cured, there's no reason to assume it will remain. And her "issues with Guts" that you are referring to were a subset of that general fear of men. It wasn't specific to him. She was afraid of him like of every other guy, then he managed to gain her trust, then lost it. I feel like I'm repeating myself here, but if they are to have issues to sort through, I would expect them to be of a higher order.

I always saw the way Casca treats Guts after the choking and assault to be a bit more specific and personal than her usual fear of other men. She seems to hate him more personally because of his previous actions rather than because of her usual phobia. And it also seems to me that her fear of men has become a bit less pronounced over time. She doesn't fear Serpico or Roderick, and doesn't even seem to show any signs of discomfort around other men the party comes into contact with over time. But her fear and hatred of Guts has been a constant, no matter how many times he has put his life on the line to protect her since. In fact, based on her representation of Guts in the Corridor of Dreams, she even seems to recognize him as her protector despite these negative feelings she has for him. So I believe her opinion of Guts goes a bit farther than her usual fear of other men.

Related to this, I'm also having trouble remembering any times she has shown a real fear of men outside of times involving attempted rape or sexual intent besides her initial meeting with Guts after the Eclipse (which could also just be explained by his excited and desperate approach and Casca being more timid shortly after the event), which makes me think it is less a general fear of men and more of sexual situations involving men (I'm uncertain, so please correct me here if I'm mistaken).

As for the purpose of the Corridor of Dreams, I think the purpose of it was just to cure her of insanity so she could actually deal with everything herself, as well as to offer Farnese and Schierke a glimpse into the events that led her to become that way. I think it's a bit debatable whether many of these symptoms can be attributed to the trauma itself or the state of insanity she was in. For example, her phobia of men/sex is something that I don't expect to just disappear after she returns. That was a direct result of her rape at the hands of Femto and how she was affected by it. I think this will still be a heavy issue for her to deal with, but the difference is that she will actually have to deal with it now, and she can work through it from there. Same for any other issues she has to deal with.

And back to the topic of her issues with Guts, I think it will be a bit of the same principle. Obviously she isn't going to hate Guts because he got possessed and strangled her, nor do I think even the assault alone would be enough to destroy their relationship after all they have been through together (although I do expect her to feel very upset and even a bit betrayed if she recalls that event). But as I said in an earlier post, the assault is just one of several things that Casca could likely be upset with him about, including his abandonment of her, disagreements involving their child, and perhaps even taking her to Elfhelm to restore her mental health without her consent (although I would add that I believe Guts was doing what was best for Casca with the latter, I could still see her being upset about it).

And sure, Guts has learned his lesson from a lot of these things and grown from them to become a better person. But he wasn't the only afflicted party. Casca was just as involved in these events as he was, and we haven't gotten to see her opinion of them (at least not while she was sane). And with her finally coming back, we could finally be getting those reactions. Based on your previous posts, I don't believe we are necessarily in disagreement here.

This is sort of what I meant when I said there would still be a rift between them after she was healed. Even if the specific reasons as to why they have grown apart aren't the same, there are still quite a bit of issues they will have to work through.

You're not sure why I'm drawing a distinction between the Beast of Darkness and Guts generally? OK... Well there is more to Guts than just the Beast of Darkness. Miura created that character to show Guts' internal struggle. What the Beast wants isn't what Guts himself really wants. It's just a part of him, not the whole. That's why I distinguish the two.

Of course, I just wasn't sure why you were making the distinction in response to my point in particular when I said in the same sentence that he would be conflicted over the idea. We aren't in disagreement here. Although I would say that it is a bit misleading to say that "what the Beast wants isn't what Guts himself wants." The degree of influence the Beast has over Guts varies at different points of the story, but even when it is at its weakest it is still a visual representation of Guts' own darkest wants and desires. That doesn't mean it represents what Guts most wants, mind you. But that's a bit of a tangent and a whole other can of worms to get into.

This is obviously not the same thing as her not being able to take care of herself because of her madness... That time has come to an end.

Fair enough, but the point of what I was saying was that I expect Guts' struggle between Casca's needs and desires and his own desire for revenge to still be a continued conflict for him going forward. Casca is healed? Maybe she wants to stay on Elfhelm and avoid conflict with the God Hand. Casca decides to pick up her sword again? Then it's to go on another journey that continues keeping Guts away from revenge. The nature of the child is revealed and it is discovered that he can be used as a weapon/exploit to kill Griffith? Then there is friction between the two of them about that. That's kind of the sort of conflict I expect for Guts for the rest of the series. Eventually of course they will have to go to Falconia and Guts will have to confront Griffith, but I don't expect the two sources of his inner conflict (Casca and Griffith) to align themselves and give him a clear goal that satisfies both ends. Not that it couldn't happen somehow, but that just seems a bit too easy for me.

Sure. Most of my interventions are to point out that things are more complicated and nuanced than people think. Everything we've been talking about here is guaranteed to involve complex emotions and circumstances.

I agree. We are definitely heading towards some really great character interactions involving Casca. It's very exciting.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 354
« Reply #105 on: March 03, 2018, 10:33:53 PM »
If it is frowned upon, I'll try to refrain from doing so in the future.

No, I was just puzzled because it seemed unnecessary.

I always saw the way Casca treats Guts after the choking and assault to be a bit more specific and personal than her usual fear of other men.

Yeah, there are regular reminders of her dislike of him after those incidents from volume 23.

Related to this, I'm also having trouble remembering any times she has shown a real fear of men outside of times involving attempted rape or sexual intent besides her initial meeting with Guts after the Eclipse (which could also just be explained by his excited and desperate approach and Casca being more timid shortly after the event), which makes me think it is less a general fear of men and more of sexual situations involving men (I'm uncertain, so please correct me here if I'm mistaken).

It's true, talking about "fear" is too extreme. That being said, she is shown to be more comfortable around women in general. For example, Rickert tells Guts that she only trusts Erika in volume 13. Later, when the group is formed, she immediately takes after Farnese. And when Farnese leaves for a while in Vritannis, it's Schierke who looks after her. It's a consistent pattern.

I think it's a bit debatable whether many of these symptoms can be attributed to the trauma itself or the state of insanity she was in. For example, her phobia of men/sex is something that I don't expect to just disappear after she regains her memories of the Eclipse.

Well yes, I had gathered as much. Fortunately for us that matter will be settled soon.

But as I said in an earlier post, the assault is just one of several things that Casca could likely be upset with him about, including his abandonment of her, disagreements involving their child, and perhaps even taking her to Elfhelm to restore her mental health without her consent

Yeah, I actually said that myself before you did.

This is sort of what I meant when I said there would still be a rift between them after she was healed. Even if the specific reasons as to why they have grown apart aren't the same, there are still quite a bit of issues they will have to work through.

But you said there is already a rift and that it would continue. That's very different. No one's disagreeing that Guts and Casca might have points of contention or even just that their relationship will need to be rebuilt. There's a ton of reasons why that would be the case (that's what I've been saying all along). The problem to me is you were saying the previous issues she had while insane would carry over, as opposed to the new Casca having her own set of issues.

Of course, I just wasn't sure why you were making the distinction in response to my point in particular when I said in the same sentence that he would be conflicted over the idea.

Because the way you worded the sentence I quoted didn't feel true to Guts' character to me. Even though you said he would be conflicted.

Although I would say that it is a bit misleading to say that "what the Beast wants isn't what Guts himself wants." [...] That doesn't mean it represents what Guts most wants, mind you. But that's a bit of a tangent and a whole other can of worms to get into.

There is nothing misleading about what I said. The Beast of Darkness is one facet of Guts and does not represent the whole of his persona. What it advocates for within Guts' mind doesn't represent Guts' true desires. It's only partial, like a pulsion. You essentially say the same thing here in bold, albeit less elegantly, so I guess you agree with me anyway.

Fair enough, but the point of what I was saying was that I expect Guts' struggle between Casca's needs and desires and his own desire for revenge to still be a continued conflict for him going forward.

I know what you're trying to say, but I don't think it's the proper way to frame it.
Guts' dilemma was between protecting Casca or going for revenge because he couldn't do both. He made that choice a long time ago, and now it has borne its fruit.
What comes next are new choices. And fundamentally, they will not be between revenge and "Casca's needs and desires". They will be between Guts' own various desires. This is an important distinction to make.
Needless to say, Casca will have her own choices to make, and as will each member of the group. I expect it to be a rich time for character development.

Offline Kaladin

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Re: Episode 354
« Reply #106 on: March 16, 2018, 10:52:00 PM »
The preview of the next YA issue has a griffith image, I'm curious as to why they chose griffith instead of the usual guts, could we be switching plots next episode or is it just YA gibberish

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Re: Episode 354
« Reply #107 on: March 16, 2018, 11:10:44 PM »
The preview of the next YA issue has a griffith image, I'm curious as to why they chose griffith instead of the usual guts, could we be switching plots next episode or is it just YA gibberish


You probably shouldn't read too much into that. The publisher chooses those seemingly at random. And the text mentions Guts and Casca.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Archer1215

Re: Episode 354
« Reply #108 on: March 17, 2018, 12:21:36 AM »
The preview of the next YA issue has a griffith image, I'm curious as to why they chose griffith instead of the usual guts, could we be switching plots next episode or is it just YA gibberish

I highly doubt it. Switching back to Falconia or Rickert right now would be a really bad move. Not only would it disturb the flow of the story, it would rob us of Cascaís initial reaction upon waking up. If Miura were to cut back to Griffith, it had better be a damn good Griffith episode to justify that. Itís funny to joke about, but thereís absolutely no way thatís going to happen.

Offline Kaladin

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Re: Episode 354
« Reply #109 on: March 17, 2018, 02:33:51 AM »
If Miura decides to switch I'm sure he'd know how to handle it well but yeah I would rather have the crew finish their business at elfhelm and then we see how the outside world changed. It would be pretty impactful that way.

Offline Archer1215

Re: Episode 354
« Reply #110 on: March 17, 2018, 02:52:45 AM »
If Miura decides to switch I'm sure he'd know how to handle it well

Thatís the thing though. I just donít see any way he could do a location switch right now and make it work. The idea itself is baffling to me. This would be such a terrible time to cut away from the Casca situation. Which is precisely why I canít imagine Miura doing it, because it would just be really awkward.

We donít have to wait until the party leaves Skellig either though. I could see the story cutting back to Falconia in a few episodes after Cascaís initial reactions and interactions with Guts and the rest of the party upon waking up. Then we could witness Griffithís wedding to Charlotte and coronation followed perhaps by a declaration to his new subjects about what his future plans are. That would be the perfect way to end Griffithís story before a timskip IMO. But some form of resolution for the current Casca situation has to come first.

Regardless however, I trust that Miura knows the best direction to take his story in.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2018, 03:51:20 PM by Archer1215 »

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 354
« Reply #111 on: March 17, 2018, 03:03:43 AM »
Switching back to Falconia or Rickert right now would be a really bad move.
If Miura decides to switch I'm sure he'd know how to handle it well
I just donít see any way he could do a location switch right now and make it work.


Seriously guys, calm down.  :schierke: We're at 6 posts now over an advertisement that means absolutely nothing other than Berserk is coming back next week. That image of Griff is from the cover of Vol 33. Those images aren't chosen by people intending to preview the contents of the next episode. Go back and look at the previous ones. They just use what they have on hand.

I could see the story cutting back to Falconia in a few episodes after Cascaís initial reactions and interactions with Guts and the rest of the party upon waking up. Then we could cut back to Falconia to witness Griffithís wedding to Charlotte and coronation followed perhaps by a declaration to his new subjects about what his future plans are. That would be the perfect way to end Griffithís story before a timskip IMO.

Some time should already have passed. They've only been on Skellig for a day, but that could be weeks, or months in the outside world. I agree that seeing the coronation next makes the most sense, but it could also water down the effect of a dramatic passage of time if Miura chooses to lift the veil a bit early. Furthermore, there has to be something more than the coronation and a declaration from Griffith. It wouldn't be Miura's style to switch perspectives just for that formality, I don't think.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 354
« Reply #112 on: March 17, 2018, 04:47:43 AM »
I don't think Miura would be foolish enough to further delay the biggest moment of the series to date, one we've literally waited over a decade for, the most anticipated event since the eclipse and what will be so satisfying for many of us after all these years to finally see the coronation. Maybe we could see Casca's reaction or something.

Offline Archer1215

Re: Episode 354
« Reply #113 on: March 17, 2018, 03:08:53 PM »
Some time should already have passed. They've only been on Skellig for a day, but that could be weeks, or months in the outside world. I agree that seeing the coronation next makes the most sense, but it could also water down the effect of a dramatic passage of time if Miura chooses to lift the veil a bit early. Furthermore, there has to be something more than the coronation and a declaration from Griffith. It wouldn't be Miura's style to switch perspectives just for that formality, I don't think.

It might make sense for the coronation to take place several months after the Rickert situation. After all, I would expect it to be a grand event requiring quite a bit of organization and planning, something highly anticipated by the people of Falconia. I also don't think a smaller timeskip before a more dramatic one (let's say 5-10 years) would be terribly detrimental.

The coronation/declaration could simply serve to lay the groundwork for things to come, and then when Guts and co. finally leave Skellig we could be bombarded with the big reveal of the fruits of that declaration. Say for instance that Griffith declares that Falconia will lead the charge for humanity against this cruel new world to take back their their territory from Fantasia, then when Guts and co. return to the mainland we find that not only has Griffith expanded his influence to the rest of Midland, but has built the beginnings of an empire spanning numerous nations under the domain of the Holy See. Returning to Falconia beforehand wouldn't necessarily ruin or water down the effect of a big reveal like that, it would merely serve to lay the foundation for it.

As for returning to Falconia just for the coronation, well I wouldn't expect that either. We could witness Griffith's wedding to Charlotte and explore their relationship a bit more. The Pontiff could finally succumb to old age after crowning Griffith, and this could be an excellent opportunity to follow his spirit to afterlife and finally find out what exactly happens to the spirits Griffith allows to offer parting words to their loved ones (although I believe we already have a pretty good idea). Maybe we could even get an update on what the God Hand are doing now and find out more about what they're planning (Council of God Hand anyone?). And personally, I would love a bit of introspection on Griffith's part now that he has obtained a kingdom of his own, but maybe this should wait until we learn the true nature of the Moonlight Child so as not to spoil any surprises there.

But all of this is heading into heavily speculative territory. We could just as easily never see the wedding or the coronation, as much as that would be a bummer to me. Of course this all depends on just how dramatic the difference in the passage of time between Skellig and the mainland will be, as well as how long Guts and the rest of the company stay on the island.

Offline Oburi

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Re: Episode 354
« Reply #114 on: April 01, 2018, 12:39:45 AM »
Oh boy, what a time to be alive. After all these long years of struggle, itís finally happened. I never thought Iíd see this moment, and now that itís finally here.... I donít know what to say.
It does put me in a reminiscent mood. Like many of you have said before me, Iíve been on this wild ride for many years. My entire adult life, actually. How long has it been exactly? 18 years, I think, or close to. In the time that I first discovered Berserk, and longed for Cascaís sanity, I graduated high school, and college, my career has changed several times, I got married, had a kid, and separated. My interest waxed and waned over the years, partially due to the hiatuses, to Life, and also because I just never thought theyíd get off that fucking boat. In that time I have read and reread the series from first to last, and Iím in the middle of it again. The timing couldnít be better, as Iíve just come to Episode 82.
But here it is! Itís beautiful. Itís wonderful. And itís heartbreaking. For so long Cascaís kept herself locked away from those horrific events, the death of all those she held dear, and the betrayal of the one she saw as her Savior. It broke her, and her madness was the last line of defense. Now sheís been forced to confront it, to relive those most painful moments, by those who thought they had her best interest in mind. Will she be thankful? Can she handle the harsh realities? Will she be able to come to terms with the truth, to accept the world she now finds herself in?
I really donít have any insight to share. Itís been years since Iíve said anything here, or discussed Berserk at length, so youíll have to forgive me. Iím happy to see this forum is still living and breathing, and welcoming new strugglers! I really just wanted to peek my head in for once and share in this momentous occasion.
(Apologies if I overshared there  :farnese: or didnít share enough   :carcus::casca: )


DUDE, I swear to god the other day I was actually thinking that with all these crazy new developments I wonder if some old timers ( specifically Slightly Green, as I first knew you) would pop up. I'm so glad that's the case. Welcome back friend!

PS - Fuck you the boat trip was awesome.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2018, 01:08:05 AM by Oburi »