Author Topic: Episode 355  (Read 32991 times)

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Online Walter

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Re: Episode 355
« Reply #150 on: March 24, 2018, 06:28:40 PM »
Right, it's really about her and how she's going to feel post-Eclipse, like what Guts went through in his own way. So, despite being the catalyst, or just the last piece, I don't think poor Guts will end up at the center of this either, merely a big part of it, but hopefully due to his importance to her.

It's too soon to say, but I think the way Guts was used in this episode as the trigger for her darkest memories could end up just being a role in this scene alone, not as a burdening reminder of those times. This episode was about her coming to terms with her past, and the worst parts all flooded back at once upon seeing Guts. Now those memories are back. But that could really be it.

It'd be nice to see some of the soldier in her again now that she's had a nice long rest.

*Casca is sprinting through the forest of Elfhelm.*
*A brownie sweeping the floor gets in her way.*
*He doesn't last long.*

we never see her going on an insane charge like Guts did.

I dunno, she charged Guts blindly and ended up stabbing him in Vol 9. Did that count?

Having a Casca-style Black Swordsman Arc, where she's feeling murderous and suppressing her feelings. But unlike Guts, she'll have a group to help her lower those walls right from the start.

Right and Casca is a completely different person from Guts. Already, trauma affected them differently. I don't see any reason they'd be faced with the exact same stumbling blocks when coping with it.

Confirmed plot armour, we can all relax.  :iva:

Uhhh, were there serious discussions about Casca dying after all the labor and time involved in bringing her back...?

Edit: Someone on the Berserk reddit theorizes that the way Guts is depicted here is simply showing how Casca remembers him until they're up close (i.e. Golden Age Guts from a distance, Fantasia Arc Guts up close whose scarred body reminds her of the eclipse and Griffith's mangled body, makes sense) but that still doesn't explain the cover to me.

That idea is really misguided, too. Guts is wearing the Berserk Armor, has the Dragon Slayer. So much for seeing past Guts! It's a convoluted notion someone cooked up while trying to figure out why they can't quite see Guts' white streak (it's in shadow, like half of his head). And by page 2 of 356, that guy's going to feel pretty stupid. ("oh the hair was white all along? yeah well who cares"). Miura doesn't pull twists like that. If he wanted to go that route, it would have been Guts in Golden Age gear to accentuate what's happening. Otherwise this bizarre effect would be lost in confusion.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 355
« Reply #151 on: March 24, 2018, 06:47:23 PM »
Uhhh, were there serious discussions about Casca dying after all the labor and time involved in bringing her back...?

She's gonna go running to her true love Griffith so he can reject and finish her off once and for all! This is the harsh reality of the no holds barred manga murderpiece BERZERK, bro! Sorry Casca, you gettin' B'ZERKED!

It's too soon to say, but I think the way Guts was used in this episode as the trigger for her darkest memories could end up just being a role in this scene alone, not as a burdening reminder of those times. This episode was about her coming to terms with her past, and the worst parts all flooded back at once upon seeing Guts. Now those memories are back. But that could really be it.

That's my hope as well, and would mean we could actually see Guts helping and them reconciling immediately. I would understand the choice if Miura deemed it necessary and I'm sure it would be effective and all the more rewarding in the end, but I really dont require anymore extended estrangement between these two! Miura is clearly aware of the time passed as well and it would be consistent with how he's been getting right to the point with Casca's return and reintegration if she's still able to accept Guts after this (she's already besties with Schierke and Farnese, her first girlfriends, hope it wasn't a tease =). Best case scenario: they embrace into a crumpled puddle of tears on the floor together. :judo:

Offline Lord Leith

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Re: Episode 355
« Reply #152 on: March 24, 2018, 06:54:57 PM »
That idea is really misguided, too. Guts is wearing the Berserk Armor, has the Dragon Slayer. So much for seeing past Guts! It's a convoluted notion someone cooked up while trying to figure out why they can't quite see Guts' white streak (it's in shadow, like half of his head). And by page 2 of 356, that guy's going to feel pretty stupid. ("oh the hair was white all along? yeah well who cares"). Miura doesn't pull twists like that. If he wanted to go that route, it would have been Guts in Golden Age gear to accentuate what's happening. Otherwise this bizarre effect would be lost in confusion.

You're taking it too literally lol, obviously Guts isn't dressed like he was in the Golden Age or exactly the same but that's not the point, its more so that physically all the key signifiers of post eclipse Guts are absent (i.e. his eyes aren't shown, the white streak is absent, his scars and metal arm are hidden) in the mind's eye of Casca since thats how she last remembers him in the Golden Age (which is why I said her perspective from afar, we as readers obviously know he's not the same and Casca upon closer inspection can see the differences as well, its not unrealistic however that from a distance she'd see him how she last remembered him), difference of weaponry and armour/clothing notwithstanding. 

For what its worth, even her bubbled memories as Elaine show that she remembers his new armour and sword but his face along with other key post eclipse features are turned away from her except for his metal arm. The only example we have of her specifically reflecting on his face and body (again armour notwithstanding) are from the Bonfire of Dreams and their time together making love, maybe she does remember how he currently looks and Miura simply picked these for emphasis but its all pretty vague as of now.

Anyways, this still doesn't explain the cover, care to explain that?
« Last Edit: March 24, 2018, 07:20:33 PM by Lord Leith »

Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 355
« Reply #153 on: March 24, 2018, 07:16:03 PM »
You're taking it too literally lol, obviously Guts isn't dressed like he was in the Golden Age or exactly the same, its more so that physically all the key signifiers of post eclipse Guts are absent (i.e. his eyes aren't shown, the white streak is absent, his scars and metal arm are hidden) in the mind's eye of Casca since thats how she last remembers him (which is why I said her perspective from afar, we as readers obviously know he's not the same), difference of armour/clothing notwithstanding.

I think he was taking that theory to its illogical extreme to point out its a reach to say that's why the white hair isn't visible. Guts is being de-emphasized and obscured for a number of reasons including how different he'll look up close, but making it about and focusing on the hair is little silly.

Quote
Anyways, this still doesn't explain the cover, care to explain that?

The cover must be from Casca's deluded point of view!  :troll:
« Last Edit: March 24, 2018, 08:13:13 PM by Griffith »

Offline Lord Leith

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Re: Episode 355
« Reply #154 on: March 24, 2018, 07:22:16 PM »
The cover must be from Casca's deluded point of view!  :troll:

 :ganishka: Okay despite the fact that I'd like an actual reason from somebody, I have to give it to ya, thats really funny haha

I won't continue rambling on about his hair or anything since it ultimately is pretty trivial but like I said I do take consistency seriously so Im a bit in disbelief at the notion that Miura would've given him black hair on the volume cover as a simple mistake, especially since he was also working on the guidebook where that mistake isn't present.

I apologize for sidetracking the thread here, Im aware that it was discussed before in the thread for Vol 39, its just that this episode's portrayal of Guts reminded me of said cover, which up until now I never analyzed too closely.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2018, 07:50:50 PM by Lord Leith »

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Re: Episode 355
« Reply #155 on: March 24, 2018, 08:23:36 PM »
:ganishka: Okay despite the fact that I'd like an actual reason from somebody, I have to give it to ya, thats really funny haha

I won't continue rambling on about his hair or anything since it ultimately is pretty trivial but like I said I do take consistency seriously so Im a bit in disbelief at the notion that Miura would've given him black hair on the volume cover as a simple mistake, especially since he was also working on the guidebook where that mistake isn't present.

Well, if it was something he did all the time it wouldn't just be a mistake, and like I said, it's been 30 years! I mean, Miura and his poor scapegoated assistants are drawing a metric ton of shit and a lot of detail in it on a schedule, so there's going to be some inconsistencies akin to visual typos (and sometimes they even get corrected or redrawn in the volume releases, among other additions and changes). I mean, if the hair thing is bugging you must be aware of Casca's disappearing/reappearing boots from episode 189, yes!? Oh, it'll drive you nuts! :ganishka: How about Guts' infidelity with a freakin' Apostle in the first pages back when Casca was likely just a twinkle in Miura's eye? Think that'll be an issue in their reconciliation? "I was using my wedding tackle to set a trap, baby, I had to wait until their guard was down!" (I'm guessing it won't actually come up =). But yeah, 30 years of material and relatively few inconsistencies, but they are there and ultimately we just have to accept them. Embrace and enjoy the wabi-sabi of Berserk! :guts: :miura: <(I meant to do that!)

Offline SleepersWake

Re: Episode 355
« Reply #156 on: March 24, 2018, 09:07:49 PM »
That's my hope as well, and would mean we could actually see Guts helping and them reconciling immediately. I would understand the choice if Miura deemed it necessary and I'm sure it would be effective and all the more rewarding in the end, but I really dont require anymore extended estrangement between these two! [...] Best case scenario: they embrace into a crumpled puddle of tears on the floor together. :judo:
Best case scenario needs to happen at some point, and will be the greatest, most tearful catharsis of all time  :judo:
tbh, though, I feel like the most sensitive and mature thing Guts can do in this situation is to let Casca dictate the pace of their reunion herself. I think experience has taught Guts that rushing over to comfort her in his arms will probably backfire. A major part of his character growth in the past several volumes has been learning to accept that not all problems are best solved by rushing in and tackling things headlong by himself. I expect him to demonstrate that growth here, by staying back and waiting for Casca to approach him, possibly after the ladies have helped calm her down.

This is what makes Guts such a real, relateable, and beautiful character to me: He may be an indomitable badass in a fight, but he doesn't really know how to deal with real human emotions, be they his or anyone else's. We probably all know people like this in real life, who cope with every kind of problem by blindly assaulting it, expecting to triumph by sheer force of will. My favourite moments of the series are almost all about Guts maturing into his own emotional vulnerability, and I hope/expect the next chapter (or another soon after that) will be one of those moments.

(Sidenote: even if he tries to rush in, Danan will probably stop him. Who knows, maybe she already warned him to be careful in her telepathic summons)

Offline Lord Leith

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Re: Episode 355
« Reply #157 on: March 24, 2018, 09:31:58 PM »
Well, if it was something he did all the time it wouldn't just be a mistake, and like I said, it's been 30 years! I mean, Miura and his poor scapegoated assistants are drawing a metric ton of shit and a lot of detail in it on a schedule, so there's going to be some inconsistencies akin to visual typos (and sometimes they even get corrected or redrawn in the volume releases, among other additions and changes).

But yeah, 30 years of material and relatively few inconsistencies, but they are there and ultimately we just have to accept them. Embrace and enjoy the wabi-sabi of Berserk! :guts: :miura: <(I meant to do that!)

Oh without a doubt! Miura is human after all so I'm sure its not beyond him or an assistant to make a mistake like that, it just seems like such a simple one (colouring) that I would never foresee it actually happening. Thankfully I never did notice Casca's boots, currently Im only at Vol 10 with my rereading so it'll take me a while to get back there but I'm sure it will bug me hahaha  :ganishka: but of course none of this is enough to stop my enjoyment of Berserk.

If it were any other series I'd expect more mistakes like this so its a testament to how amazing Berserk's quality is that lil things like this end up surprising me, its one of the closest things to a perfect piece of art (in regards to visuals and storytelling) in my opinion so my standards for it may be unfairly high. This episode being a perfect example of that, I haven't really expressed my opinion on it yet so I might as well.

Guts and Casca's chemistry and tumultuous love story has always been one of, if not my absolute favorite aspect of Berserk's plot. I love how the story progressed in spite of her losing her sanity and agency throughout the years and enjoyed arcs like Conviction or Millennium Falcon just as much as the Golden Age (in some ways, I've enjoyed them even more) but with that said, due to her state of mind I always looked back on the Golden Age fondly (like most fans) in a way that distinguishes it from the rest of the series.

The way this episode started, with Casca immediately greeting the others demonstrated said agency that she's been lacking, it reminds me of when Guts and Casca kissed and how it was she who leaned in first to kiss him, it made me so happy and yet also feel surreal to know that this is actually happening, I always knew it would but I expected to wait many more years and I feel blessed to have this moment now.

Her new dress did strike me as odd (albeit beautiful of course) considering her character but seeing her object to it added onto that nostalgia, further reminding me that this isn't Elaine anymore (a woman so oblivious that she needed help getting dressed, let alone being able to judge clothes for herself) but truly the warrior we've missed for 22 years...or personally in my case, approx 8 years.

All of this build up, both leading up to this episode and within it had me so excited but like you said Griff, it was almost as if Miura had rolled out a red carpet only to then pull it from under our feet, I suspected that it was too good to be true but I was still not ready to see Casca scream upon seeing Guts, only the future will let us know for sure what that reaction fully entails but as of now, it was both an amazing and surreal experience.

Miura as always pulled through and delivered us another monumental episode, Im enjoying the moment for what it is but with one of my favorite aspects of the series coming back to the forefront I cant help but be even more excited than usual for what the future has in store for us.



Offline DarkAdin

Re: Episode 355
« Reply #158 on: March 25, 2018, 10:41:58 AM »
The scene in which Casca sees Guts approaching her, in full armor, the sword on his back... Man, it's so full of detail we could talk about it all day. Could the Sovereign have given him instructions to present himself like that on purpose?
Also I like how Miura handles Guts. Seemingly emotionless, tall, stoic, like a symbol that represents a man who isn't who he once was. Since Casca's mind shutted off, Guts has changed, darkened even more. If Guts presents himself like this, he's approaching the situation straightforwardly, not trying to deny her what he'll always be: a Berserker.
Time fades even legend

Offline SaiyajinNoOuji

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Re: Episode 355
« Reply #159 on: March 25, 2018, 08:23:42 PM »
After all these years since Guts gave Griffith that look of, "I am done with you for the time being", to get on the boat. We have an awakened Casca. I won't be a broken record on the visuals but just bask in all the wonderful things that this episode has brought.  :ubik:
"Plenty of time to sleep when you're dead!"

Offline Kaladin

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Re: Episode 355
« Reply #160 on: March 25, 2018, 09:02:47 PM »
This episode was phenomenal and full of surprises, typical of Miura :carcus:. Casca remembering herself as elaine and the rest of her monologue was well handled, her beautiful dress etc...and the art did the talking for you. This entire portion of the story was very well executed, not that there were any doubts. Such an anticipated moment must be a huge burden off Miura's shoulders, the story just keeps getting more and more exciting. It's crazy to think that after every episode, the fans think of ten different scenarios of what will happen next, but Miura does something really different, and it's always better  :ganishka:. Can't wait to read the episode in its full glory when the digital issue comes out. Volume 40 easily best fantasia volume   :badbone:

Online Walter

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Re: Episode 355
« Reply #161 on: March 26, 2018, 04:31:08 AM »
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline w00t

Re: Episode 355
« Reply #162 on: March 26, 2018, 08:56:14 AM »
That image hits right in the feels. I had to take a break before continuing from there...

It's just so good to have her back.

Online Walter

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Re: Episode 355
« Reply #163 on: March 26, 2018, 01:47:27 PM »
That image hits right in the feels. I had to take a break before continuing from there...

Thanks! Yeah, it's the emotional core of the episode for sure. I don't have the skill to color it, but I'm sure there are others who can do it justice.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Keiko

Re: Episode 355
« Reply #164 on: March 26, 2018, 07:10:35 PM »
I'm also kind of bothered by how Casca's face looks more like a child's face now than it did during the previous two or three arcs, especially the panel where she first wakes up, and the the first page of this chapter. Hopefully Miura fixes it somewhat for the volume. But other than that, amazing and gorgeous chapter. Cant believe we actually reached this point, I just recently found out I was seven years old when Casca became insanse. Somehow I imagined the Eclipse happened like ten years ago or something, not 21. O.o

And this is probably what many are thinking, but I'm guessing that if or when Guts and Casca will try to make love again, it will parallell their first sex scene with Casca being the one freaking out this time. Obviously Guts will have to be a lot more tender this time around... :p

Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 355
« Reply #165 on: March 26, 2018, 08:00:04 PM »
I'm also kind of bothered by how Casca's face looks more like a child's face now than it did during the previous two or three arcs, especially the panel where she first wakes up, and the the first page of this chapter. Hopefully Miura fixes it somewhat for the volume.

I don't think she looks like more a child, particularly any more than she does in your avatar for example. She just looks more like her old self, which makes sense for us to think she looks younger because that was a while ago to say the least. And really, she's still a young woman now, so whether we thought Casca looked more mature or not in any given part or panel is highly variable and subjective, just like Guts (who sometimes can look anywhere between the 20-something he's technically supposed to be and a fuckin' 40 year old man =).
« Last Edit: March 26, 2018, 08:21:39 PM by Griffith »

Offline NCHaskew

Re: Episode 355
« Reply #166 on: March 26, 2018, 08:36:18 PM »
I don't think she looks like more a child, particularly any more than she does in your avatar for example. She just looks more like her old self, which makes sense for us to think she looks younger because that was a while ago to say the least. And really, she's still a young woman now, so whether we thought Casca looked more mature or not in any given part or panel is highly variable and subjective, just like Guts (who sometimes can look anywhere between the 20-something he's technically supposed to be and a fuckin' 40 year old man =).

That does bring up an interesting question for me: does anyone know how long this quest for Casca's sanity has been going on within the story? If I remember correctly, Guts is like 21 during the Black Swordsman Arc, and I think the latest guidebook says he's 24 now?

Online Walter

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Re: Episode 355
« Reply #167 on: March 26, 2018, 09:19:54 PM »
That does bring up an interesting question for me: does anyone know how long this quest for Casca's sanity has been going on within the story? If I remember correctly, Guts is like 21 during the Black Swordsman Arc, and I think the latest guidebook says he's 24 now?

He was officially 21 by the time we see him in Lost Children. There hasn't been an official count of the years since then, aside from what Miura wrote in his answer to our 2009 interview (3-4 years since golden age), which would make Guts 23-24.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Sareth

Re: Episode 355
« Reply #168 on: March 26, 2018, 09:31:43 PM »
He was officially 21 by the time we see him in Lost Children. There hasn't been an official count of the years since then, aside from what Miura wrote in his answer to our 2009 interview (3-4 years since golden age), which would make Guts 23-24.

Seems like only around half a year since the beginning of Conviction. Conviction goes from autumn to winter and Milennium Falcon is winter to spring.

Online Walter

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Re: Episode 355
« Reply #169 on: March 26, 2018, 11:12:47 PM »
Seems like only around half a year since the beginning of Conviction. Conviction goes from autumn to winter and Milennium Falcon is winter to spring.

Even with a scrupulous inventory of perceived season changes throughout that period, I think that's a really short amount of time for everything that occurs in Conviction, Millennium Falcon and now Fantasia..

There's also the boy to consider. I don't think Miura arbitrarily chose the age of that child, and he's definitely not 2.5 years old. More like 3-4, I'd wager.
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Offline Theozilla

Re: Episode 355
« Reply #170 on: March 27, 2018, 12:20:37 AM »
Seems like only around half a year since the beginning of Conviction. Conviction goes from autumn to winter and Milennium Falcon is winter to spring.
If you’re curious about the nitty-gritty details regarding the Berserk timeline, Walter compiled a pretty easy to read list of all the stated instances of the passage of time in the series from an old thread I started discussing said topic: http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=15216.msg245078#msg245078

Offline Cronus

Re: Episode 355
« Reply #171 on: March 27, 2018, 03:21:12 AM »
Wow. A phenomenal episode and moment in this story.
Any ideas on who/what the 'faint voice' could be that she references?

https://i.imgur.com/vmHCc2y.jpg

I made the same connection given that S3 is fresh in my mind, but this...is glorious.

All is within the flow of causality.

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Re: Episode 355
« Reply #172 on: March 27, 2018, 05:28:20 AM »
Wow. A phenomenal episode and moment in this story.
Any ideas on who/what the 'faint voice' could be that she references?

Whoa! A phenomenal occasion indeed, I'm loving all the major cameos and callbacks in this thread (it is like S3 =). I must take the opportunity to converse with you about Berserk...

Quote
Any ideas on who/what the 'faint voice' could be that she references?

My guess is it's simply what remained of her, holding on so she could possibly see Guts again and/or her child.

Or, as some of hypothesized, take another run at Griff now that he's shown some mutual interest! :troll:

Quote
I made the same connection given that S3 is fresh in my mind, but this...is glorious.

Again, I gotta credit Eluvei for the idea. BTW, there's also some obvious Elaine/Dougie parallels in hindsight. Lynch would be so impressed with Miura for making us wait 22 goddamned years; I just hope Casca isn't in some fucked up semi-catatonic state for the next 16 episodes! :ganishka:
« Last Edit: March 27, 2018, 05:39:36 AM by Griffith »

Offline Keiko

Re: Episode 355
« Reply #173 on: March 27, 2018, 07:30:25 AM »
I don't think she looks like more a child, particularly any more than she does in your avatar for example.

Well, I can't help but see a difference. For comparison:



(Sorry if the images are huge, they were tiny on my pc but still became this way here.)

Anyway, I'm not saying she looks bad, not at all. I just personally liked her look a tad more in the previous arcs, that's all.





« Last Edit: March 27, 2018, 07:42:57 AM by Keiko »

Online Walter

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Re: Episode 355
« Reply #174 on: March 27, 2018, 10:46:57 AM »
Wow. A phenomenal episode and moment in this story.

Indeed, good to see you again dude :guts:

Quote
Any ideas on who/what the 'faint voice' could be that she references?

The "there's someone I want to see" line came from Elaine a few episodes ago, so it would make sense that Casca is sensing an echo of Elaine's wish.

We've gone back and forth across that time about whether it's Guts or her child that she wants to see. I think Casca, who hasn't yet grappled with being a mother, may think that it's Guts, but I'm still guessing it's the child given Elaine's connection with him.
:femto: :slan: :ubik: